[00:01.2]
Hello and welcome along to another episode of Management Matters. I'm Fiona, your host and resident professional development coach. And it's been a couple of weeks since I recorded an episode and it feels really nice to be back. Today we are out and about for a walk.
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It's a bit more of a roadside route today. I'm not in the woods so hopefully the traffic noise won't be too bad. But we'll give it a go and see how we get on. All right, so welcome back. This is the both the first and the final episode of this series.
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It's the final one because it wraps up this series of episodes that I've been covering about the thresholds that managers go through as they progress in their career and their real development as a manager and as a practitioner and you developing those management and leadership skills.
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So it's closing out that series and it's the first one because this is about becoming a manager for the very first time. It's the new manager threshold and it's probably one of the most obvious thresholds in the series.
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But it's being recorded at the end because I just hadn't really developed it when I started all of this. So now developed and getting added at the end as the closing episode. And I think that's quite fitting because actually it's in this threshold where If you make this move now, develop these skills at this threshold crossing the very first job and first role as a manager, then a lot of the other thresholds may never need to be crossed because you kind of do them as a job lot.
[01:59.1]
In the first threshold of becoming a first time manager, The challenge that most often comes up for people and that I see as really common among, not so much my clients actually because people who were at this threshold don't usually come for coaching, but more kind of reported by clients who are managing managers.
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And I guess I see it more when I'm doing group work or facilitation and sort of the work that. I do that is in and among teams. I will see this type of manager all the time. It's really, really common.
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And it's a first time manager who has been promoted from within a team. So they used to be a member of the team and now they're managing the team. They usually only have one or two direct reports. But those people have been and are still their friends and they get in this tricky spot where they're thinking, well, I don't want to be the bad guy.
[03:08.6]
So surely if I'm nice enough, everyone will just do as I ask and we're friends so they'll, want to help me out. Unfortunately, that doesn't work or doesn't work all of the time, and it certainly doesn't work as well as those managers might hope.
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And then eventually, sometime later, they find themselves in a slightly tricky sticky spot where they're going, oh, this isn't working. So and so's got, I have to deliver some bad news or there's some behavior issues that need to be dealt with or whatever it is.
[03:47.1]
And all of a sudden this new manager is confronted with the concept that they might have to be the bad guy for the first time. And that can be really uncomfortable, particularly if you're being the bad guy to someone that you are friends with and maybe go for a drink with after work on a Friday or those kind of things.
[04:08.9]
The other way that this new manager dynamic can show up is in those managers deferring decision making up the line. So I saw this with a team that I worked with a few years ago where the director was very clear about how many days she wanted everybody in the office and nobody liked it, but it just was what it was, right?
[04:36.0]
One of those it is what it is situations, where everybody reads into it. It's a bit shit, frankly. But it was needed from the director and everybody knew that. And the sort of team member level were complaining to their first line managers and going, it's not fair.
[04:56.4]
Other parts of the institution don't have to be in this often. We don't like it and "blah blah blah" and the first line manager, several of them were entertaining this and I think this is the type of thing we see all the time where they're outsourcing their authority as managers.
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We're going, let me talk to my manager about it and get back to you. Where actually they know, when I challenged them on it and said, well, if you talk to your manager, is anything going to change? And they said, well, no, but it feels easier to do that and to position my manager as the bad guy instead of for me to say no and position myself as a bad guy.
[05:45.1]
And I think what that was creating was this cycle of drama where they're outsourcing their authority and becoming a messenger rather than a manager. And it's also eroding trust because the team don't really respect it and the manager's manager doesn't really respect it because they're like, why do you keep deferring all of this, kind of fuss, and drama to me, when actually we all know it's a no.
[06:15.9]
And you should just be able to deliver that no with conviction, clearly, concisely underscore the drama and well, draw a line under the drama and then move on and just be getting on my stuff. And I think this is the first test of new managers ability to cultivate a working culture in a team that they are responsible for.
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This also shows up, I think, when feedback, difficult feedback gets postponed or delayed because the manager's like well, it's just not quite the right moment to deliver it or, this person is going through a rough patch.
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So I'll wait until they've, you know, dealt with the situation with their boyfriend or moved house or whatever it is and then I'll give them the feedback. And ultimately it creates again sort of erosion of trust in the team and obviously overlaps with some of the other thresholds we've already talked about.
[07:14.7]
And then the final one, which again overlaps with confidentiality episode, is where gripes leak. So this is where a manager who's been promoted out of a team and still identifies as friends with the team, maybe gets a bit loose lipped over a couple of glasses of wine or beer and, well not even wine or beer, you just generally and can end up sharing complaints about senior leadership or the institution or decisions that have been made where they're letting their discomfort spill out onto those team members.
[08:03.4]
So again, instead of stepping up into that managerial space where they're identifying with their job as being aligned with the institution, the employer, senior leadership, where they can have pushback in private.
[08:21.8]
What's happening is they're not doing that pushback, they're just joining in with the team and complaining about whatever the situation is, which again is not healthy or helpful because it's eroding trust. And those team members will be thinking, well, if you're talking to us like this about them, how are you talking to them about us?
[08:44.0]
And I think that can be a really tricky subconscious question for team members. So really encourage people to just avoid that territory altogether. So in each of these situations you can see there's something a little bit deeper happening. So we've got where the manager ends up as the messenger, we've got the role requiring decision making and holding of authority, but the individual being uncomfortable with that and delaying or deferring and stepping out of that uncomfortable position.
[09:23.3]
We've got people checking, just slowing things down by checking and delegating upwards. And we're really missing the point that, the Brene Brown quote that I come back to often that clear is kind and unclear is unkind and they're letting lack of clarity persists in the name of niceness, where nice overrides kindness or clarity.
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And the paradox, as often is the case with these episodes or thresholds and themes in management is the paradox is that the behavior that is designed to preserve the team relationship is the behavior that's quietly distributed, destroying it.
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Gross, isn't it? Realizing that trying to be nice to everyone is actually dissolving trust because people know that you're operating from nice but soft and not firm, but fair. And niceness without clarity reads as sort of evasion where you're sidestepping instead of just being really clear, having strong boundaries, giving good feedback and all of those things we've talked about in previous episodes.
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So the shift is from unclear and nice to clear, kind, firm, but fair. And I think actually, you in the team and group type of work that I've done around this topic, those managers know that's what they should be aspiring to, but they don't want to tip over too far and end up being bitchy or, feeling like the bad guy.
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And so they haven't quite hit that mark correctly. And that's how they end up slightly to one side or the other. So bear in mind this isn't a move from nice to harsh. It's a move into a more grown up version of the same underlying values. Right?
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We want to do well by our people. We want them to think well of us. The way to do that is through respect, not through favoritism or, evasion or, well, let me see.
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That feels like kind of I'll go and ask for a favour for you. Where actually just being clear and stating the situation directly might be more helpful. And there's a practical bit here as well that's about owning decisions rather than rooting them upwards.
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Saying the answer is no in a voice that is your own voice owning this no rather than that kind of. Let me check where it seems like there's a confusion of the yes and no just creating some lack of clarity there.
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So what happens next? Well, on the other side of this shift the team relationship does shift, but probably not in the way that the manager might have originally feared, because the underlying fear is if I'm sturdy and robust, they won't like me anymore.
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But what actually happens is respect grows and some informality may have to fall away. You might need to make things a little bit more formal. But as we spoke about in the episode about boundary setting, actually that can be really helpful.
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And I really like the metaphor of crossing a bridge for thinking about how we use boundaries in this way, where if you're trying to get from one side of a cliff edge across a chasm to the other cliff edge, then think about going across a rickety rope bridge.
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How quickly are you going? You're probably not. I'm, I'm gonna be on my hands and knees crawling, hanging onto this thing for dear life and full of fear. But then when you think about putting sides on it, introducing structure, maybe making it a three lane motorway you can go across at full speed because everybody understands there's structure there, there are boundaries.
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You're not going to fall off the side because there are, sides on the bridge. And you can go so much faster because there's clarity of the structure and the boundary and everybody understands it and so you can go faster.
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And it's the same when you're thinking about team relationships. So the friendship may need to shift a little bit because now you're the manager. But that doesn't mean that the friendship has to end or that the friendly relationship needs to end because you can be friendly and be clear and be firm and be respected, and the team will probably function differently.
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Expectations will be clearer, issues will be addressed earlier. People stop holding back because they know that the manager will hold the line and the manager becomes capable of crossing the thresholds that follow. Think about the other episodes that we've had.
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There's the boundary threshold. It's impossible to cross if you're still hiding behind the sort of let me check line. And the delegation threshold and the team responsibility threshold both require the authority that is established in this move and this shift as the first time manager.
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And so there's a real pattern here where all of the other thresholds become easier when this one is crossed. Because of this, in a sense, it's the end of this series of podcasts.
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There will be more podcast episodes. Don't panic. If you're a big fan of the podcast, don't worry. There'll be more to come. But we've now walked through the whole framework, from the new manager finding their feet to the senior leader finding their voice.
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And I really want to acknowledge you for, listening along to all of these and that you might see yourself in more than one threshold and that's really normal. You might also find that you flip flop between a couple of different thresholds or that you have that experience of crossing and then coming back and then crossing and then coming back and it might not feel like a consistent part of your practice yet.
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That's also really, really normal. And these are the types of things that people bring to coaching often, because having a coach on your side can help with that accountability and follow through. So if you would like my support in coaching, let me know.
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I will put some more ways to work with me in the comment section and if you want to sign up to my mailing list, I'll put a link to that. Otherwise, thanks for listening. The next few episodes, I haven't totally planned them out yet, but I think they'll be quite tactical.
[16:42.6]
A bit of kind of "how to" type of content to really help you think about if you're at one of these thresholds, what are you going to do about it? As always, if you have any requests, let me know. I always find I'm better when I'm in response. So send me your questions and concerns or scenarios and I will be more than happy to chat about those.
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And if you haven't already, check out my LinkedIn where I'm doing 21 days of delegation related questions in a jar, so you can find me over on LinkedIn. At the time of recording, I'm on day 15 so there's a few more days to go. All right, thanks for listening and I will see you next time. Bye.
